Al Bielek talks about Phil Schneider


Interview with Mike Hautzager, the producer of “The Phil Schneider CD” (

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Hopefully I can contribute something to what is sometimes called the mystery of Phil Schneider.  I don’t think his life as such was any mystery, but prior to the point when he went public, perhaps it was, because he worked for the government in one capacity or another for many years.  He was both at the Skunk Works—what was called the Skunk Works—in Burbank, California; he was at Edwards Air Force Base; he worked all over the country, and eventually all over the world, on underground bases—told me many stories regarding those.  Of course, his involvement with the Dulce Wars, as they were sometimes called, against the aliens: he was one of the very few survivors in the one which was so disastrous.

All of these things, of course, I did not know about him.  In fact, never heard of him, until some time in early 1993, as I remember, when at a conference, doing a lecture, of course, in the Philadelphia Experiment in Seattle.  He had showed up, introduced himself, and says, “I would like to talk with you.”  He says, “My father, Oscar Schneider, was a part of the Philadelphia Experiment.”  Well, of course, my ears perked up.  And over the course of time, he told me some things about his father.  At that point I believe his father was still alive; it was shortly after I met him that his father died of cancer.  But his father had been a captain in the United States Navy medical corps and was the chief medical officer for the Philadelphia Experiment, and other things afterwards.

Now, didn’t his father, that’s Oscar Schneider, tell Phil this information just before he died?

Yes.  He knew that he was involved in the Philadelphia Experiment; that was an open discussion well before he died.  But what was not open discussion until two weeks prior to his death, when Oscar knew he was dying of cancer—and was, I guess, irreversible at that point—he called Phil into his bedside.  And he says, “Phil, I want you to know my real history.”  He says, “I’ve always told you I was born in the U.S. of Jewish parentage and such”; and he says, “That’s not true.”  He says, “I was born in Germany many years ago”—the exact date I don’t recall.  But during the period when Hitler was in power was when he grew up.  He was a master machinist at the age of 14, which was quite an accomplishment  in Germany then, and eventually enlisted in the Navy and became a captain, and a captain of a U-boat.

According to what I was told, Oscar Schneider had something like 68 successful kills—that is, sinking English or French shipping during the early part of World War II, because the United States was not involved until after December 7, 1941.  And he was captured at some point along the line by the French.  He was taken into custody; he was held there in France until late 1939 or early 1940—some time in that period; I’m not quite sure of the dates, but it was some time around early 1940.  And some negotiations took place, and at some point, the Third Army of the United States was involved—of course, we had some troops over there.  He was turned over to the American troops brought back to the United States, and suddenly given the same rank in the United States Navy as he had had in the Germany Navy: that of a captain.  And, of course, he was a medical officer.  Now, Phil asked the same question I did: if he was a U-boat captain, and he comes into the United States Navy, how could he suddenly become a medical officer?

Did he tell his son that he was Jewish?

Prior to the true story; he was not Jewish.

So Phil thought he was Jewish.


But he was really German.

He was really German.

Okay, so that was a cover.

Right.  He was actually born about 1905, if I remember correctly.  And the official Navy record, which I have seen, says that he was born in 1905 in some little town called Cisco, California.  Went through the University of California, Berkeley for his pre-med.  This is for Oscar Schneider: this is the official version I’m talking about for the Navy, which I have a copy of somewheres.  And when he finished his pre-med, he went to Harvard for medical, for his internship, and then joined the Navy and worked his way up through the ranks as a medical officer.  That’s the official version.  The unofficial version and the facts are quite different.

(5:55)  Now, how Phil Schneider—uh, Phil Schneider had no choice but to accept the word of his father; but how Phil Schneider thought about this I don’t really know, except he questioned it just as much as I did.  How could a man who had been in the German Navy for a number of years as a captain going around, as a U-boat captain sinking Allied shipping suddenly become a medical doctor?  It had to be a cover, which, the Navy made up the whole story of his original being born in the U.S. going through all the medical schools here.

Well, do you think, Al, that his being brought over here to the United States was part of Operation Paper Clip?

Oh, this was long before Paperclip.  Paperclip was 1946.  He was brought over to the United States sometime I believe in late 1941.

Did he say why he was brought over, or why he came over?

To become part of the Philadelphia Experiment, was the information I had, and the information which I believe Phil had; he was put into that immediately.  Now one has to ask the question, why?  Having read some of the private papers of Oscar Schneider, all I can say is for an MD to run off the mathematical equations I have seen, and references to time-travel and equations for time-travel, I knew the reason why the United States government wanted him.  He apparently was involved somewheres in the background of the German research on time-travel and time research, because they had a program going also, as we did.  And our program, of course, was heavily concealed under very high security starting in 1936.  But the Germans allegedly had a successful time-travel system functioning before World War II was over.  And it would appear that Oscar Schneider had knowledge of this, and because of his knowledge of this he was assigned to our project, namely the Philadelphia Experiment.

Now, the Philadelphia Experiment was not truly a case for time-travel: it was a case for using manipulations of time and the time field to create invisibility; but there was a relationship.  That’s my data, my assumption, and what I have been able to put together on why they wanted Oscar Schneider in the U.S.  Because otherwise, why would you take a naval commander from Germany, who had sunk all kinds of ships, including maybe your own—and at this point I don’t believe he had sunken a U.S. ship, but Allied shipping—and suddenly put him in the United States Navy at the same rank as he had held in the German Navy?

(8:30)  Well, did Oscar ever share that with Phil, as far as the reasoning that he was brought over?

I don’t know whether he really did or not.  I discussed this with Phil quite a lot, and Phil did not give me all of the background that he knew about his father, except this aspect: there might have been a connection between Oscar Schneider coming to the United States and my father—my real father as Edward Cameron.  My father was Alexander Duncan Cameron, Sr., who was involved in government intelligence from the time he left the Navy in 1929 through the period of 1946, when he was heavily involved in Operation Paperclip.  He brought a lot of German scientists into the U.S.  I certainly don’t know who they all were.  Could he possibly have had a connection with Oscar Schneider?  I think it’s possible.

So, in your conversations with Phil, did he say anything else about his dad and the Philadelphia Experiment specifically to you?

The only other things that came out specifically was that Phil’s father and my father were very close friends.  And they used to go on fishing trips together out of Sarasota, Florida—this was, of course, after the war was over.  But I can make an assumption here, without really knowing the facts, that they might have known each other before Oscar Schneider came to the U.S.  That is a possibility.

So, that was the link, I guess.  That was the reason why Phil Schneider came to you in the first place.

He came to me in the first place because he knew that I was involved in the Philadelphia Experiment; he knew his father was in the Philadelphia Experiment.  And he wanted to tell me about it and discuss various things.

(10:00)  So, from that point, did you two become close friends?

Yes, we did.  We became casual friends at first.  And as time went on I kept talking with him, and I says, “Phil, with what you know about various things in the background, plus the Philadelphia Experiment, and what you say you’ve been involved with in building underground bases and traveling in the underground and building the underground tube transportation system, why aren’t you out talking about this publicly?  You’re not in the Navy anymore; you’re not in the service; you’re not working for the government.

So, was he retired?

He was retired.  He actually was retired in the sense that he retired himself.  He was not formally retired: he walked out on the government.  He walked out on a NATO position.  And the reasons for that he gave me very specifically, and in terms of the background of Phil, this might prove very interesting.

Phil in his own way worked his way up through the ranks as a geologist, and became involved in building underground bases and the tunnel tube system for the underground transportation system, and eventually graduated into a NATO position.  He was all over the world, and he knew how many underground bases were built in the U.S. as well as world-wide.  He used to tell me: 131 in the U.S. and about 1,400 world-wide.  Of the type he described, which was 1-3 miles underground, anywheres from 1/2 to 3 cubic miles of earth were removed by nuclear detonation, and to create this huge cavern.  Because earth, the rock, is porous, and if you choose the right earth materials, the right rock material, which he was an expert at.  You had to use certain types of rock material to build the underground base or you just forgot it.  It had to be certain layered rock, certain structures, which I’m not familiar with, but he was.  And you build these underground bases: they were all over the world.  They’ve been built by other nations, also.

And part of this led into his NATO operations.  The thing where he left was the most interesting.  He was on line for—and I said two-and-a-half, three years—retirement for NATO—formal retirement.  His salary at that time in NATO had gone up to something like half a million bucks a year—this was the salary.  And his retirement was slated to be one million per year—retirement.  He was an extremely important person, very high-level; had high-level clearances.  But he said what changed his mind and he decided to walk out on everything was the fact that he was invited to attend some UN meetings—the very classified ones, which were not held in New York at the UN Terminal, the UN buildings, but in a deep underground military base.  He said there was a facility which had all of the layout exactly like they have the UN headquarters in New York underground in this base—he never told me where it was—but there was an extra row of chairs, or a ring table and a row of chairs, above the rest, which did not exist in the usual settings for the UN for the meetings.  Everybody would go in there, including the spectators who were there, himself and some other people, everybody would sit down and be waiting, and then the final group came in, would sit at this upper tier of chairs.  They were all tall greys, extraterrestrials, seven-footers.

Like the ones he shot in Dulce?

I don’t know if he ever shot a seven-footer.  He didn’t tell me particularly whether it was a seven-footer or not, but he said the ones who came in on the UN meeting were the seven-footers, and they dictated policy to the United Nations.  He attended not one, but two meetings of this type, and he says— after the second meeting he says, “I am working for the wrong people.”  He had a conference that day with some of his NATO friends in the NATO department of geology, I believe is what he called it.  There’s a whole group of about 40 of them.  They all decided they wanted no more any part of it, and they walked out on retirement, salaries, everything.  All 40 walked out the same day, and wiped out NATO’s department of geology.

(14:15)  And he retired. And he went back to Portland, Oregon.  He was living alone in his own apartment—he had an ex-wife and a daughter about eight years old at that time; she’s a little bit older than that now—and sort of ruminated within himself.  Talked occasionally before one group in Oregon, which was the Western Bigfoot Society.  [unintelligible] in talking before that, and there is one article published on the Net about it.  He used to talk about some of the things he knew at this Bigfoot Society group, but he never went totally public—this was a private group; it was not a really public group.

I kept insisting: “With what you know, Phil, you should go public with this.”  I said, “It’s in the interest of the public; they should know some of these things.”  I said, “I’m not telling you you should say everything you know, but certainly about the underground bases and operations and so forth.”

So, I finally got him out on the lecture circuit after we’d talked about this quite a bit.  The first attempt at a lecture, which was successful so far as the lecture was concerned, but in terms of videotaping it was a failure, and that was the 7th of May, 1995, in Las Vegas, Nevada.

Was that his first lecture?

That was the first one public of this nature.  It was not the first lecture he ever did.

Yeah, because he mentions that he did like 30 or 40 lectures.

He did a total that year of about 30 or 40.  He may have done some prior to that, again with the Bigfoot Society and some small groups in the Portland area.  But this was in Las Vegas on the 7th of May, and the next day we were slated to talk up in the Cour d’Alene area of Idaho.

So, was it in 1994 that he decided to go public?

It was early 1995.  I kept twisting his arm, and he finally decided, “All right, we’ll try it.”  The first one that was recorded successfully was the one outside of Cour d’Alene—I think it was Post Falls, Idaho.  That was on the 8th of May.  Then there was the August one in Denver at the Instonians, the Global Sciences Conference, and he did a workshop for about two hours.  September, the Preparedness Show in Seattle; November another Preparedness Show—not Seattle; it was elsewhere, I think Denver.  And that was the last of the public series which were recorded.  In-between this, of course, he had many other lectures.  He knew a great deal about the Kobe, Japan, earthquake, which is what it was formally called.

(16:50)  And many others, too.

Yeah.  He knew a great deal about those; he knew a great deal about the earth faults—he used to tell me about them.  The fault lines.  And that Denver was relatively safe, but he said if you go west into some of these so-called secluded places for survival, he says they’ve got fault lines running right through them.  He said the first ridge of the Great Rocky Mountains, as an example, is loaded with fault lines.  And he says, “You don’t want to be there.”  He says, “Go further west, and the second ridges, and you’re okay.”  And he knew all the geologic layouts and where the problems were and such.

But he was invited to go to Japan to speak over there.  The State Department refused to let him go.  They says, “You’re not going.”  They says, “We know you have a passport, but you’re not going to Japan.  We will not allow it.”

Oh, because he wanted to talk about the Kobe earthquake.

He wanted to talk about the Kobe earthquake and a few other things.

And they wanted to find out, didn’t they.

They wanted to find out the facts of what he might know.  So they arranged that.  Since he’s now long gone it doesn’t make any difference.  They arranged it very neatly.  The Japanese says, “We’ll pick you up out of Vancouver BC.”  He says, “We’ll fly our own jet over.”  He says, “You drive up.”  He says, “You can drive across the border with no problem.”  Of course, he can, unless there was a strict order at the border that he’s not to go, which there wasn’t.  He could, just as a tourist, drive acrosss the border into Canada on a driver’s license—he didn’t have to show a passport.

So he did that.  And he met them at the particular airport in the Vancouver area, and they flew him over to Japan in their private jet, and he was there three days lecturing on the Kobe earthquake and who-knows-what else.

When you say, they, who were the ‘they’?

They were the top executives of major Japanese corporations.  Mitzubishi is one example I remember he mentioned.  Mitzubishi and some of the others—I don’t remember all of the names.

So, they must have given him quite a bit of credibility.

They did give him a great deal of credibility.

Was there any retribution that the Japanese enacted as a result?

No, there was no retribution on the Japanese or by the Japanese.  No.

Because, obviously, what Phil is saying is that we blew off an atomic bomb that caused the earthquake, right?

That’s exactly correct. There was a tactical [nuclear bomb] in the harbor, which was planted by, as he said, Navy SEALs. And it followed a long argument between the United States Government and Japan over the fact that Japan was the world’s leader in synthetic intelligence computer technology, and all of it centered in Kobe.

So, what happened with the executives?

That’s an unknown—to me, anyway.  Kobe was leveled, and particularly the building which contained most of the research for this was leveled.  And he told me that 70 percent of the Japanese scientists working on synthetic intelligence computer systems were living in Kobe and were working on a project there.  And it was leveled, and that put them out of business.  And the U.S. government probably—whatever elements in the government; you cannot accuse the whole government; it’s certain sectors within it—probably felt satisfied.  There was no repercussions that I know of.  But at the same time, those executives learned what Phil had to say regarding the facts of what happened, and what may have happened after that I have no idea.

And about what day again was this?  What was the date when he was actually flown to Japan?  Was it 1994 or 1995?

It was in 1995, after he had gone public.  And I would say it was in the fall months, but I’m not sure of the dates.  Because Phil died—murder by suicide, if you will—on or about the 10th of February of 1996, just before he was going to go to the Global Sciences Congress in Florida, that winter congress.

Let’s go back, before we get into his death.  Again, you had a lot of contact with Phil.  And didn’t you spend—

We spent a lot of time with him.  Going around lecturing, particularly that period when we were in Cour d’Alene and the hotel there, sponsored by a woman who is now dead; she brought a lot of people in lecturing all over.

But didn’t you share a hotel room with him?

Yeah.  I shared a room with him.

Did he share any other information with you besides what we are going to see on the CD, on the videotapes?

He mentioned Area 51.  And a very interesting incident that occurred out there.  He had business during the time he was working for the government.  He’d fly out out to Area 51 periodically and see some particular officer in the—I think he said the Air Force; I’m not positive now, rather high rank—on business related to what he was doing.  And in this one particular day—as I say, when he went out there, he had gone in—and he went into the outer office, and a Marine guard there says, “So-and-so is not ready to see you right now; please have a seat in this office.  Oh, and by the way, just keep your eyes straight ahead: don’t look from side to side.  And when he’s ready, he’ll call you.”

Of course, tell that to Phil, and he’s going to have other ideas: “What is it they don’t want me to see?”  So he let his eyes wander, and he saw a window, probably one of those slanting windows, where he could see through partially.  It was a dark-colored glass.  He could see through partially and see that there was somebody behind that glass.

Eventually he got to talk with the person he was to meet and talk with, what his business was, and so on, he took care of that, and then he asked the guy.  He says, “There’s a smoked-glass window out there on the other side of your office.  What’s this all about?”  He said, “Oh, that’s one of our guests.”  He said, “One of your guests?  What do you mean?”  He says, “One of the guests of the government.”  “What do you mean, guests of the government?”  He says, “Oh, that’s one of the aliens we keep around.”  “Aliens?”  “Yes.”  “What do you mean?”  He says, “Well, we have a few guests, you know, from the UFOs that have come down and so forth.”  He said, “We’ve got a reptilian in there.”  He says, “We’ve had him here for months.  We’ve been trying to get him to talk, but we can’t.”  He said, “He won’t talk with anyone.”

So, Phil looks at the officer and he says, “Why don’t you let me try?”  The guy looks at Phil and says, “You?”  He says, “What makes you think he’ll talk with you?”  He says, “I don’t know.  Why don’t you give it a try?”  He says, “Well, everybody else has failed—why not?”

So, he was prepared for this.  He said this is a special room; it’s got a special atmospheric mixture for him and a temperature of 123 degrees (Farenheit).  You have to go in in a suit, an air-conditioned suit and so forth.  And you have a microphone, a speaker and all the appropriate apparel.

Are you saying the reptilians can’t live in this atmosphere?

Oh, they can. But this guy was being kept in the atmosphere which was more normal to what he was experiencing, would normally experience. They kept him in an atmosphere which was esentially the same as his home atmosphere.

And where was his home?

That was not mentioned to me. So, Phil went in there and he said he was in there 20 minutes, 30 minutes, and this guy—I say, “guy”; I assume it was a male—started coming out with a bunch of pips and squeaks and high-pitched sounds. Now, being that this creature was about six foot tall, one would expect a lower voice. But if you have some rare-gas mixtures, such as argon, helium, whatever, it’s common knowledge, of course, if you put a human in a high-helium mixture, they sound funny. Their voice goes up in frequency because the propagation rate for the gas is a much higher rate than normal air.

(24:30)  So, was that the problem?

That was apparently part of the problem. So, eventually Phil did get to talk with this creature, and they exchanged some thoughts and ideas. He was trying to speak in English, but it didn’t come out very well.

Because of the gas.

Because of the gas and so forth.  Perhaps he didn’t know the language that well.  I do not know the reasons.  But eventually he talked with him.

Okay.  So Phil actually got them to change the gas?

I don’t know whether they did that or not. But in any case, Phil reported back to the officer later. He says, “Yeah, I got this guy to talk, and such and such and such.”

Well, at the time when Phil admitted this to me, I asked him. I said, “What did the guy tell you? What did he talk about?” He says, “I don’t feel comfortable talking about that at this time.” He never did tell me. But he got a permanent assignment for three months there as the official interpreter for this alien. And nobodly else could talk with him, except this guy would talk with Phil.

So, what information came out of that, who knows? The government was trying to interrogate all of these captured aliens that were still alive and find out where they were from, what they were doing here, and whatever they could get out of them. And apparently it was a fairly successful program. Because I know one other operation, who was on the lecture circuit for some years at the Instonians up in Denver, who was lecturing about the aliens and admitted openly that he spent seven years in the Pentagon on special projects related to UFOs. I happened to wander in while his lecture was going, because he had the door open. And I looked on the podium; he had notes on the podium. This is a friend of mine—I’m not talking about Phil; I’m talking about somebody else, later. And, all alien text. I looked at this alien text, and I says to my friend, “I didn’t know you could read this stuff.” And he looked at me and says, “What do you think I did for seven years in the Pentagon?”  And I said, “Oh.”

(26:17)  Who was this?

I don’t know if I should mention his name. I know who he is and all that, but, he’s now out of the circuit, but—

Was he a speaker?

He was the speaker.

It would be public information.

Basically, yeah.  He was the nephew of a famous admiral who went to the South Pole back in 1947, Admiral Byrd.  This was Admiral Byrd’s nephew, whose name at the moment escapes me, but it can be traced.  But in any case, I found that curious because he was more [UI] an alien-language text, and there has been a great deal of communication with aliens by certain elements of our government, the secret government.  And Phil was involved in this for some three months.

Well, did Phil know who this secret government is? Did he know the people?  Because he talks about his security clearance—I forget the name of it, something-3—that he had this very high-level security clearance.

Yeah.  This got in through an interesting point of contention later—not between Phil and myself.  It was a peculiar clearance and it was related to one of the gemstones.  They had a gemstone level of clearance. There were several levels of gemstones and several numbers and he had one of these clearances, plus some other level which came out of the Pentagon.  And many years after this, after Phil was dead and gone, I was on a talk show.  The host was the former director of the FBI in Los Angeles—Ted Gunderson.  And I mentioned the level of clearance, and one of Ted’s friends calls in and talks on the show.  He introduces himself and says, “I am a former NSA employee,” or still was NSA.  But he says, “There’s no such level of clearance.”  I got into quite an argument with this guy, and finally I was cut off the air.  I talked with Ted much later, years later about this: “Why was I cut off the air at that time?”  And he says, “I had nothing to do with that.”  I says, “Well, who did?”  He says, “I had orders from the program head that runs the program for the station” that I was to be cut off the air.

So here you were, you were on the air, you’re describing Phil’s level of security clearance by name, and Ted Gunderson, who is the host, told you later that he had to cut you off the air.

Right. He says, “It was not my doing.”  He says, “I had orders to cut you off.”

(30:30)  So what else did he share with you?

He mentioned the fact that he had been in Europe and Russia; and though he claims he never rode on these underground railroad systems, he helped build them.  And he says, among other things that he was aware of was a huge pile of UFOs, wrecked ones, that we had, and that we were shooting down UFOs at the rate of approximately seven a month.

Did he see these piles of UFOs?

Yes, he did, personally.

And where were they?

He didn’t specifically state where in the U.S., other than that there was more than one—there were several piles of them.  But he said while he was in Russia on NATO business, he looked into the matter over there, and he said they had football fields.  He said, fields full of junked UFOs covered two football fields.  He said they were shooting them down at the rate of about one a day.  And I said, “Well, what about the occupants?”  He said, “I don’t know what happened to any of the occupants.”  But he said the orders have been out for quite some time—this being prior to 1995—that anyone who comes into the Earth closer than, as I was told, a 250-mile periphery above the surface of the earth—a 250-mile zone, safe zone for us—any closer than 250 miles above the surface of the earth, it would be shot down no matter who they were, friend or foe.  They had to have clearance to come any closer, no matter who they were.

(32:00)  Well the listener would say, “These guys, these extraterrestrials had the capability to do space-travel.  Couldn’t they counter our defensive measures?”

Not what we have now. Now we have particle-beam weapons systems, like those developed by Tesla, but, of course, vastly beyond what even Tesla dreamed of in terms of power.  They now are so powerful—  Much of the research was done at Montauk Point in conjunction with the Montauk Project.  But quite aside from that, we have them all over the planet now: there’s some 36 major high-powered ones, from what I understand.  And the power level is now to the point, with one of the newer ones, which is a twin-beam particle beam, which is transmitted as a scalar transmission system.

Now, if you know anything about scalar theory, which some of your listeners will, if you cross two scalar beams so they cross each other, you manifest a strict electromagnetic beam, with all of its manifestations at that crossover point.  So what they do is they aim two of these particle beams in the scalar mode out into space wherever they want to.  And when they want it to, let’s say, produce a physical manifestation, such as converging on a UFO and blowing it out of the sky, they will focus it that way.  Now, it will take a bit of power to do this.  The power now is upped into the terawatts region.  You had to go on from megawatts to gigawatts, and it’s now in terawatts (one trillion watts).  And the last piece of information I had on this was that we have been using the moons of Jupiter for a shooting gallery, for practice, with the particle beam, the newest one, from Earth.

The tunnel for these have to be optically aligned, laser aligned, and so forth.  Three hundred miles long?

Deep, you mean?

No, 300 miles long, for the system, well under the earth, in the middle of the U.S. somewheres.  And how they reflect the energy out and how they focus it I do not know.

But you think that’s what they’re using to get—

That is what they are using to blow a hole through one of the moons of Jupiter 25 miles in diameter, from Earth. I think that will take care of any UFO that’s out there, including in the Jupiter orbit.

(34:40)  What else did Phil tell you that was interesting in those private moments?

He told me about one of his encounters in the underground when we were doing a bore for preparation to build an underground base. He said the typical procedure was, they bored a large-diameter hole—large enough to run a captain’s chair down through: it was about six feet or so in diameter—and it could be earth boring, it could be laser, it could be whatever. But they bore this hole down—he says anywheres from one to three miles. The goal typically was between one and three miles—no less than one mile.

But his job was, when they had it down to the depth they wanted, he would go down on the captain’s chair—literally, physically down in the bore hole—and examine the rock structure at the bottom to see if it was the kind of rock structure that would be possible to use to create, by blasting, their underground base. And he says more than once it happened that as they were boring they hit an open area, an underground cavern system. And he was dropped down. The first one of these, where it happened that way, he was told, “Get on the chair and go down and find out what’s down there.”  Well, he took lighting with him.  He said he didn’t know what to expect.

Is this the Dulce wars you’re going to talk about?

No, this was before the Dulce wars.  This has nothing to do with the Dulce wars.  This is in the standard procedures of building the underground bases.

Wouldn’t he get hot?

No, this is another great misconception.  I’ve done a lot of spelunking in my life, and this is one of the strange things they tell you.  In all of the natural caves, natural cavern systems, they are the same temperature the world over, averaging around 52 degrees Fahrenheit, night or day, summer or winter.  They vary maybe plus or minus two degrees from that, but they hold right around 52.  And regardless of the depth, they’re still 52 degrees.  Now, you say, “What about volcanoes?”  They have a special structure, and apparently the volcanoes— of course they’re hot: you got molten rock.  But there’s no truly accurate theory to explain why you have volcanoes with all of this molten lava, which is assumed to come from the center of the earth—it does not.  Why we have volcanoes is still something of an unexplained mystery, and even Phil couldn’t come up with an answer on that one.

But he went down on this one case, on the chair.  He got down to the lift, got out of the chair, and was wandering around in a very dim cavern system, very foul air.  Apparently sort of breathable, but very foul air.  And with his lighting he looked around there, and he wandered— he thought he saw a shadow of something moving, and he wandered around one of the corners of this cavern system and was face-to-face with an alien.  And he said he looked at it, it looked at him, if I remember correctly, he described it as a reptilian.  But he says it went for something on his chest: it had some kind of a plaque or thing on his chest.  But he says he pulled out his 9mm Ruger that he had in his pocket.  He wasn’t supposed to have it in his suit, but he had a hunch to take the gun with him that day and he did, and he shot this thing dead before it got him.  He said this happened more than once.

Well, I thought this was the Dulce wars you were talking about. Because he said that sixty or so soldiers actually got killed in that exchange.

And the exchange in the Dulce wars, in the Dulce tunnel.  But this was a totally separate phenomenon.  See, what he was talking about exploring— this is when I say in private conversations.  He was exploring these caverns when they hit them.  When he went back up finally, and told them what happened, he said he got the impression that they knew all about it.  And he says, eventually he learned the government knew where these underground caverns were and that they were inhabited.

So, how is that experience different from what the Dulce wars were?

The Dulce wars was going into a base they already knew, already had, was originally a government base, was turned over to the aliens, and they took it over completely, and eventually kicked out the scientists—wanted to run it entirely on their own.  The government wanted it back.  And this was in New Mexico, of course.  And my understanding of the history of it, it was originally built as a storage depot for nuclear waste.  But the governor of New Mexico at that time says, “You’re not dumping that nuclear waste here in an underground facility in New Mexico; you’re not going to use it for that, even though it has already been built for that purpose.”

Eventually it was adopted for the underground labs and experimentation which took place at Dulce.  The aliens were invited in; they more or less took it over, and then eventually totally took it over.  But the attempt to take it back from the aliens is some 66 people went in fully armed—or they thought fully armed—and only four or five total came out.  Phil was one of those who came out alive, all injured.  They had to be carried out by marines they brought in just to carry them out, and even the marines were hit.  And he recovered slowly.  He had severe burn marks; he had a hole in his chest and other burns.

So, that’s a different experience than the one he talks about with the alien who shot him in the chest.

Totally separate.  Yes, this was one-on-one where he shot—  Dulce was not one-on-one; this was an unknown number of aliens at the other end of the tunnel, costing 66 people, including most military, heavily armed—or they assumed they were adequately armed—and literally took all the military out.  They had weapons systems we did not have at that time.

Was there anything else that was bizarre that he shared with you?

Yes, he did.  If you get into the period after he left the government, he remained, as he said, quiet for about two years, two-and-a-half years, didn’t talk publicly.  He took his oaths of secrecy seriously, and wouldn’t discuss any of what he had done.  But then he started talking, little trial balloons, at the club that was there, the Western Bigfoot Club.  And I talked with him and eventually he realized that the public should know some of this.  So I kept twisting his arm to go public, and he did.  During this whole period, he was visited periodically by various people from his old group, and from the government, from intelligence: “Hey, we don’t like what you’re doing; you shouldn’t be taking things public. We’ll forgive you everything if you just come back and work for us.”  And he said this went on repeatedly.

He says finally after his trip to Japan when he came back, he said some fairly high-level intelligence people came to visit him in his apartment in Oregon, in the Portland area, and discussed with him.  He said, “We want you to know, Mr. Schneider, that you have done a great deal of damage to the whole infrastructure, a great deal of damage to the New World Order.”  He says, “How much?”  He says, “It’s incalculable.”  He says, “You have done major damage to them with your lectures.”

Had he really?

This is what he was told, and this is what he passed on to me.  That’s a good question: did they really?  Of course, he got the same pitch again: we will give you all of this if you’ll just come back with us—we really need you.  He kept telling them, no.  Well, from that point on, apparently, they started their attempts on his life—every conceivable form.

I think he mentions that there were around thirteen, or so.

Thirteen, before, of course, the fourteenth that got him.



Phil Schneider  (from a May 1995 lecture)



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