Al Bielek – The Alternative Future Time Lines & Time Travel

CHANNEL3X

This is a special additional archive footage to “AL BIELEK – THE COMPLETE VIDEO AUTOBIOGRAPHY” never before seen. Recorded in Denver, Colorado, the 20th of April, 2000 A.D.

Return to Index

Transcript

Hello, again. This is a special recording, what we would call an archives recording. And the precedent part of this film was showing some of downtown Denver, on the date of— I think it was 18th of April. Today is the 20th of April of the year 2000. Denver is still there, and there’s still traffic and there’s still smog. But since it’s an archives report, we thought we would put in a little piece about Denver, showing what Denver is like on construction of their new stadium, etc.

In the archived report, which this is, I wish to add a few things which I would not put in the general history of myself and the Philadelphia Experiment. This material will not be available to everyone—in fact, very few people.

In going back into the problems of the Philadelphia Experiment, when Duncan and I jumped overboard off the ship, the Eldridge, in hyperspace, we, of course, didn’t know what was happening and where we were going, or if we were going anywheres, except, of course, into the water. We expected to hit the water in the bay and then swim ashore, but no water—we never hit it. We kept falling and falling for quite a period of time. Amd then it seemed to level out, and we were, shall I say, flying along? That’s not the right term, but it seems like we were, through cloud banks and other strange phenomena. And this went on for a period of time, and then we blanked out and we woke up, as we found out, in a hospital—Duncan in one bed and I in another in the same room—and wondering what has happened, where were we, and what was going on.

Well, a hospital attendant, an orderly, came in, and do the usual measurements of the usual vital signs and so forth. And he said, “Would you like to watch TV?” We said, “yes.” They turned on the TV. At this point we didn’t know that anything was wrong or anything was any different than the era we had come from—except, of course, in 1943 we didn’t have large-screen color TV. This happened to be a wall-mounted unit, smaller size, but color, which was the first discrepancy.

And we watched the TV. We were actually in that hospital for four weeks recovering. We finally asked what we were doing here. They wouldn’t tell us how we got there, but they said, “You have suffered severe radiation burns.” I said, “radiation from what?” And they sort of demurred on giving us a straight answer, as they said, “No, it’s not nuclear radiation.”

As it turns out, I would learn much later, of course, there was radiation that you will possibly run into in deep space, and under certain other conditions—which, of course, is non-nuclear, but nevertheless it’s an ionizing form of radiation that can be damaging to the body.

So, we took about four weeks to recover. And in that process, in that time, we watched a lot of television. At some point, I would say after a week of watching TV, I started asking a lot of questions, because it was quite obvious that things were not normal—normal in the sense of how we knew them in 1943. The indications were there were very few cities around the country anymore, there was rail travel, there was some car travel; but what was most important is there were no longer any national boundaries. There were boundaries for reference, like, what states do we have in the U.S.? Well boundaries referenced were in accordance with the American map as we saw it; but we are told very bluntly that no longer is there a government. Whatever is left of it is under military control.

(4:00) There were a number of references on television to the changed coastlines. It struck us that they were changed—they didn’t say that. We started asking questions: “Well, can you give us some maps of the United States? Maybe United States and Canada?” “Oh, sure, no problem.” They got em for us we were rather dismayed to find that a good chunk of California was discipline had disappeared—was no longer above water, was obviously under water. The Pacific Ocean was now encroaching on dry land, largely paralleling the San Andreas fault line. In San Francisco, a lot of San Francisco was still there was not all intact. The principal part that survived was on the rocky promontory which is in the downtown area. South of that there was a lot of damage, but apparently the damaged from the earthquakes and whatever else had hit started at a point someplace between San Francisco and San Jose, as the San Andreas fault comes in at that point. San Jose, as I remember, was missing.

And as you went further south, there was sort of a ragged loss of land. When it got down to Los Angeles, the, shall we say, the cliff area of the whole section on the beach from Malibu on south was missing: no cliffs, no apartment houses, no houses. The beaches were further inland—at least from what we thought they were originally. Downtown Los Angeles was essentially intact: it was built on a rocky area. The residential sections—other than the high hills of Altadena and some of the higher sections of Beverly Hills—were gone: they were just totally destroyed. And there was not that much left of Los Angeles as a functioning city.

Long Beach, I don’t recall whether it was still there or not, but I do recall that San Diego was totally gone, because the loss of land began just slightly south of Los Angeles and went on inland in a rather ragged line. So that— and again, approached the San Andreas fault, which, of course, runs through the Salton Sea in the southern part of California on down into Mexico.

At that point—roughly from Laguna Beach or someplace a little north of it on down to the Salton Sea—was all gone. It was underwater, the land was gone, and there were severe changes, shall we say, in that area. Nothing as severe as the Gordon Michael Scallion map: nowheres near as severe, because he showed most of California gone, and most of Arizona gone, and greater parts of Nevada gone—none of that. But up north, there was severe damage in the bay area of Seattle. Portland, I don’t recall specifically whether that was still there or not.

Chicago was gone. The Great Lakes were now one lake. Speaking, of course, of the year we were in, which we finally found out was 2137 AD.

And the Mississippi had undergone drastic changes. It had become a very wide waterway, and an inland estuary—at the narrowest point about 30 miles wide. As you went on south to New Orleans, the whole sand strip and the whole sand spit where New Orleans once was was gone, as was the city of New Orleans.

And then we found out that there was a swath of land about 50 miles wide across the entire Gulf area, the entire Gulf Coast, which was underwater. Well, this meant all of the coastal cities were gone, and that included Houston, that included El Paso, Texas, Corpus Christi, Texas—they were all underwater and gone.

Most of Texas north of that 50-mile swath was still there. Dallas, as I recall, was still intact. But the Mississippi problem was enormous, because when it got down to the Gulf, it wasn’t thirty miles wide anymore—it was over 100. And there was an attempt made, apparently successful, to build a bridge across the narrowest point of the new Mississippi, which was 30 miles wide. And they did build what became the world’s largest and longest suspension bridge across that point on the Mississippi that was still crossable.

(9:00) I asked other questions, like, “What about the East Coast?” Well, the East Coast had some very strange changes. There was a large chunk of land missing from Georgia. Georgia was peculiarly hit, in that the cities of Savannah were gone; the coastal cities were gone. Atlanta was still there, but three miles approximately from the oceanfront. And the cut out of land was rather jagged pointing towards Atlanta, but then went back towards the coast.

And as you go on up the coast towards New York, the losses were very strange, and they were sporadic, and they were not on a continuous thing: it was a jagged outline. Baltimore and Washington were gone. New York City was still there, what was left of it, which was mostly the section above the Battery on Manhattan Island: because it’s solid rock, it remained. And the areas like Brooklyn and Queens were essentially gone and replaced by water, and most of Long Island was intact.

In New England there were some missing land areas. And as I said, Chicago was gone. Upstate New York had a very strange problem. The St. Lawrence River became an inland seaway, and developed a lake which covered Albany, New York—a large saltwater lake.

So, there were a lot of streets changes in the United States. Canada I did not pay any particular attention to: it didn’t appear to have changed that much.

Europe had drastic changes. In Europe, England was gone. Most, but not all, of Ireland was gone. The highlands of Scotland were still alive and well, apparently. And in terms of the internal country and parts of Europe, as we know it now, quite a bit of it was underwater. Even parts of Switzerland were underwater: the mountains had dropped that far. What all had gone on in Europe we don’t really know, and the guys asked the questions of couldn’t really answer them correctly anyway, because they were not that familiar with it. The man I principally talked with was a hospital technician, quite intelligent, and during our stay there, he was the only black man we saw. He was a black medical technician, very competent and educated, but he was the only black person we saw in our entire stay in the year 2137.

(11:20) Well, there was still rail travel, land travel; I didn’t ask about airlines travel. I happened to ask, “What’s the world population these days?” And he said, “Oh, slightly over 300 million.” And I looked him; I says, “World population?” He said, “Yes, world population.” He said, “The U.S. is now down to around 50 million or less.” There is no government left acting on the face of the earth intact: they had all crumbled sometime between the period of 2000 and, as he told me, 2025. Martial law was set in almost all these areas. There was a combination of, historically speaking, having a nuclear war—World War III, that was considered a rather brief World War III, but a lot of destruction—and then, there was natural earth changes, which were more destructive than the war. Between all of those, there was a great loss of life, a loss of government, a loss of transportation, and, of course, without that you have starvation and other problems.

(12:20) And it went continually downhill from about 2003, is my guess. He didn’t specify a date: he said the records were hazy, but it looked like 2004, approximately, when things came apart. And at that point, he said, what was left of the government under military control was attempting to rebuild the nation. And this was in 2137. He said it was well along to being rebuilt, but it was far from being completely rebuilt, and the destruction being replaced and over.

So, that was rather a strange interlude and rather a shock. Why we wound up there, I have no idea. It certainly was not our idea, and who, shall we say, engineered this little trip into the year 2137 is still unknown to me. I have some ideas as to who it might be, but it gets into a little later part of the dissertation and discussion of what happened.

I asked about the levels of science and technology. “Oh, yes,” he said, “nothing was lost during this whole period of the earth’s destruction, of the earth upheavals and the war. He said, “We still have computers, we have TV, we have all kinds of communications.” I didn’t ask him about space travel or what was going on in terms of what was once NASA. I didn’t think to ask him about that because I was, shall we say, preoccupied by the otherwise— Earth changes and the total shif in the size of civilization and its structure.

I asked about money and banks. He says, “Oh, yes, there’s still money.” He said, “The banks are a lot smaller than they were and they’re not as active.” I’m watching TV, and now that I think about it, I didn’t see a single ad about anything; so there was some major changes.

Now, we stayed there approximately six weeks. I’m saying we: Duncan and myself; we did get up out of bed eventually and move around. But before the next phase began, I’ll have to say that I thought we were stuck there, perhaps forever, without the slightest idea of how we got there in the first place, and they couldn’t explain it, either. We suddenly appeared someplace where they picked us up unconscious, we were turned in to an ambulance crew, and they took us to a hospital. And we were in uniform, so they knew we were military personnel, but the military had changed drastically in the meantime, and the military of that era had no particularly interest in us.

The WingMakers: 2750 AD

(15:00) Now, one day, wandering around that hospital and hospital grounds, I disappeared from that era—from 2137—and I wound up in a still further future date—by what means, who arranged it, who provided the transportation, I don’t know. It was obviously a form of time travel, and the interesting thing about it was that Duncan was not with me. He remained behind at 2137, as I found out later. I wound up in the 28th century, and this was in the time period of 2749 to 2751 AD.

Talk about changes in civilization, society, and everything else: it was drastically changed from what we saw in 2137, as this is now six hundred years later. The cities were enormous; the cities were beautiful. They had ground-based cities much as we have always had them, but they also had something else: floating cities. Floating cities due to anti-gravity techniques being perfected sufficiently that they could float an entire city—which is perhaps not as large as any of our current cities. And it was round, or very nearly round. But it floated on this platform, and they could move the city any place they wanted, remaining floating in the air four or five thousand feet above the ground, perhaps, or a little less, depending on what they wanted. But the size of the city was vertical rather than horizontal: 2200 stories high. That’s about two-and-a-half miles.

(16:45) And I learned about this and looked at this, and I said to myself— because I’ve befriended some people on the 28th century—“How do they support this and strengthen materials? And anything we know—and, I’m sure, in this era—is inadequate to withstand the load of all of those stories above the ground of the lowest level.” And they say. “Quite true.” “So, how do you do it?”

And he says, “Well, very simply, about every 300 floors we put another anti-gravity platform, which relieves the weight of all of those sections above on the section below.” And they do for every 300 stories or so, and you break it up into 300-story sections, which is not impossible by even today’s strength of materials; but by future strength of materials and advances, no problem whatever. So, you divide it up, and the weight-load was only on one level, and then below, it was independent in terms of load, though they were all well attached, and by that means, they suspended the load into a distributed form, which made it very feasible.

(17:45) These cities could move anywheres on the planet. Basically, they stayed hovering and floating. If they didn’t like a particular location, they’d move somewheres else. There wasn’t that much traffic in moving cities, I can assure you, because the world population in that era, in the 28th century, was only 500 million, and I was instructed later that that was where they had held it for centuries. There would be no more than approximately 500 million population.

(18:15) Some of the features of this—let’s start from the political standpoint. As I learned, all of these cities—whether they were ground-based cities, which the majority were, because they had to do manufacturing, they had to have agriculture, and various of the things to supply the needs of civilization—but all of them, whether floating or ground-based, were rather interesting in their governmental form. They had essentially no government. There was no government as we know it today, there was no money, there was no banks there was no political jurisdictions, and it evidently resolved down to what would be best called a city-state structure, where the city is the state, and any other cities from that one are independent and operated in their own independent manner.

(19:00) So, that was the major change there. There was no elected government, there was no appointed government, there was no government as we had ever seen it in the past. As I found out, each city was run by an intelligent computer—synthetic intelligence, synthetic consciousness, a highly radioactive crystalline structure. Who built them I had no idea. Nobody seemed to know, but they’ve been there for hundreds of years, and this computer ran the entire city.

(20:00) There were guidelines set down. There were laws, law books, but no courts. There were guidelines set down as to how you were to behave, what your parameters were. Within these parameters, anything went. Anything that was not considered kosher within this realm, this parameter limit, would be expressed as a yellow zone—a zone that you don’t want to go into and you don’t want to become involved in that type of behavior. If you got out into that area, you were given an invite for a reprimand to the computer, which there was one in every city, running each city. You would literally be called in for an interview, an audience, with the computer and you would be advised that you had broken the law, but it wasn’t considered a felony—it was a misdemeanor. Misdemeanors, such that if you were judged guilty, you were sent off to one of the work camps for whatever purpose they did in the work camps. It would be much like today, I presume, where any kind of labor, menial or otherwise, that had to be done was done. And that was compulsory: that was not voluntary.

(21:00) If you were called in because you had gone outside the yellow zone into what is called the red zone, which is basically what you would today call a felony offense, you were immediately called in for an interview. You were examined, looked at, talked to, and if the computer at that point thought that you were rehabilitable, that you could learn again to be sociable and within the social bounds of normalcy, you were given one more chance. If the computer decided that you were not capable of fitting into society, you were terminated right then are there.

Now, there were other people who didn’t feel like they could fit into the society, but had not yet committed any of the so-called offenses. And literally they were allowed to leave. The word was, “If you don’t like it here, go. Go somewheres else. Go out in the boonies if you want and live as a hermit. We don’t care.” And many did. I do not know what percentage. I was told quite a lot of people had left the cities and gone out in the boondocks. Whether they form communities or not I never did find out.

(22:15) The technology was so advanced on that that you had for transportation within the city what they called acceletrons. Consider it very much like a moving walkway, as we have today, except that when you got on, you could literally jump ahead and move in a form of suspended gravity at a very high rate of speed along this beltway, and when you got to a point where you wanted to get off, you just literally jumped off. And the kids loved to play with this sort of toy—they considered it a toy—and to some extent there was getting away; but to them it was great fun, because these acceletrons went across—even in the sky-cities—across open spaces. In the interior of the city structure, there was a fairly large open space.

(23:00) Eventually, I got my turn to talk with the computer. It was a part of what was called the Lama systems. Now, why that name was chosen I don’t know, but it was a fact that every one of those computer installations, though independent, was tied together on the network—not known by most of the city dwellers—which included every city on the planet. So that there was cohesion between the computers, cooperation, and generally they kept track of each other.

I spent almost two years in this very large complex. I traveled around a lot. One of the other things was, yes, there were rails for railroads, but they had changed a lot—they were now for the purpose of excursion, having fun. And you’d go out in one of these excursions: it was a big party. The rail was much wider than our current rail system—perhaps two- to two-and-a half times wider—to accommodate a much larger car, much wider, and with that, of course, they had literally rolling dining rooms, rolling ballrooms, and could have a great time and great fun—literally traveling from one city to the other with no other purpose other than having fun and taking a trip somewheres.

(24:30) If you weren’t required to work— Which, no one was required to, other than their social obligation, which was well inculcated into the kids, that you had an obligation to contribute to society to pay for what you have been using and had inherited, for which no money was involved. A sort of credit system was still functional, but otherwise—except for fairly large credit purchases, if that is the right term—they didn’t really keep track of very much. It was considered quite free as long as you were able to make some contributions and nobody overloaded the system with demands. That happened very seldom, that there was an overload of demand for goods or services, so as a result of that, there was a very little abuse of the system.

(25:30) Now, in this period of time, talking with many people, making friends, I had a number of questions. “Who built this computer system?”—that was my first and foremost question. “Who maintains it?” “What happens when it breaks down?” Very common questions, no common answer, and very much uncommon answers.

First question about the cities—who built them and who maintains them and who maintains the computers—it was rather hard to get an answer to. No one really knew much about the history of the construction of the city or how it ran other than the computer, and you couldn’t request an interview. You couldn’t request to go in and ask questions. If it wasn’t busy with something else, “Okay, come on in,” but understanding, of course, that this was a highly radioactive device—there was a radioactive crystalline structure—you had to wear the equivalent of a lead suit. A radiation suit, much like NASA has today, except there was some lead material added to make sure that you were not affected by the hard radiation.

So, you can go and have an interview and ask a lot of questions, and I did more than once. I got some answers. I wouldn’t say they were always satisfactory, but I did find out eventually a number of interesting things. While there was no longer a military—now, I’m speaking of the 28th century—in any of the city structures and any of the data information of this computer complex—of course, they did interconnect, just like an email network or another computer complex—there were a lot of people on the line giving information and taking information.

(27:30) The aspect of how these computers communicated with each other was unknown, but the one I talked with did make a number of interesting statements over a period of time. They have been around for about 200, 250 years in this format, in this system. There was no one to do any maintenance. Apparently, there was no maintenance as such—if one of them broke down, it was simply replaced. But I wasn’t satisfied with some of these answers, and I started looking further. I didn’t find much for awhile, and then, all of a sudden, I got an invite to come visit with another group—a human group—which I did, and then I found the answers to all of my questions. All of the questions I had in mind, they were able to answer.

(28:20) Number one, who built the computer system? Well, they said they did. And the project was started about 2600 AD, and was basically an experimental system for the purpose of seeing if they could run an entire civilization by computer. And also provide full socialization—i.e., everything is free—but also in the educational system or process inculcate the idea that people have a moral obligation to do something for the community, because the community had supported them; therefore, they have to help support others in the community. Which did work most of the time. In a smaller community, it works much better than in a larger community. As you get cities the will over million population, it’s very difficult to get something like this to work and to be useful on a consistent basis.

(29:15) Well, that was one of the questions I had, and there were a lot of others. I asked about the military aspects: “No, there was no more military.” “Well, how do you defend yourself in case somebody comes along that’s has a lot of hardware, a lot of munitions, a lot of a military clout, and wants to take over a city or the whole planet? How do you prevent this, or do you?”

Well, the answer was rather complex, but basically basically it came down the fact that they had hidden weapon systems in the cities—and every installation was a city—but they had all of these installations all over. And they were well concealed. They were not described to me as to exactly what they were, but they said they were capable of deflecting and defending a city from an invasion from outer space. And there was no data given as to whether or not there had been any such attempted takeovers in the past, but at that time we saw nothing resembling any kind of an attack, any kind of a threat. It was very peaceful. And it was perhaps because of that peacefulness that people were basically so happy there. It was, you might say, the end result of a long dream about a pure socialist state. They had it, and it seemed to work.

(30:50) There’s only one fault with it that I saw, and this is something which I have discerned since I’ve been back, after many years. You get a city or group which is purely socialistic, no money: how do you keep that group together? How do you keep the society together? In that case, you’re looking at a situation where it’s partly by the will of the people, partly by, shall I say, some kind of internal control, and partly because, one could say, there’s little choice. If you don’t want to live in city, you go out in the boonies. If you don’t know how to survive by yourself, you stay in the city.

Survival skills were not something that was commonly taught in those days, because all the technical problems of breakdown of equipment had long since been solved, and the equipments generally were working and continued to work for about two hundred years without much maintenance. The maintenance that was required was definitely directed by the intelligence in the computer. Systems existed for doing repairs and maintenance, and, of course, if they had manufacturing systems, they had to have maintenance systems to service the manufacturing equipments.

All of what was manufactured I don’t know: there was definitely a lot of agriculture. on the surface and in the periphery, basically, of some of the surface cities. Some of the agriculture went outside the city limits, outside the periphery of the city, but not a lot. They seemed to produce more than enough food for what they needed, which was good, because there was no problems or threats of food shortages. The idea of a threat to the survival in a civilized society had long since faded because the people was so well cared-for. But here is also a problem. Because people were well cared for by a socialist system, they didn’t have to work to do anything. Even though they were expected to work and expected to contribute to society, it was not demanded.

(33:10) The things I saw in this society and civilization were at first unique to me, and . . . were not only without precedent, [but] I had no comparison, no basis from the memories of the 20th century, because at the time of my arrival, my memory of the 20th century was wiped out. All of the comparisons I have done have come since, because at this point I’m able to compare what I saw at that time with what I know, of course, of the 20th century. But it was sort of strange in that I didn’t know really why I was there, I didn’t know whether I had any connection with the Philadelphia Experiment or anything else in the past; but there I was wandering around the city as one of the regular inhabitants, occasionally taking trips out of the city, which were a lot of fun, and meeting this group who built the computer system.

(34:00) Now, as they told me, this was an experimental system, a sort of an experiment in social behavior—not necessarily behavior modification, but social behavior to see whether they could build a city and have it be run by a computer, after setting down certain parameters of what you do or don’t do in a society in which you have a city, or even a smaller community. It was obvious to them, as it was to me, that the experiment was largely working. But my questions in retrospect—meaning from the viewpoint of now, and from what they told me also—yes it is an experiment, but they do not know if it will succeed. Because one of the problems which develops when you have pure socialism like that which is working, and everything seems to be running smoothly, you have no incentive. No one has an incentive to go out and do something new; nobody has an incentive which says you must try something like this to make a a better living, so to speak. You didn’t have to make a living—everything was provided. You didn’t have to get an education. And this, of course, put at that point already a severe a severe restriction on original research, because people weren’t interested in doing it, so they didn’t. And eventually, the society appears— it fell apart. But certainly it was at its peak point, I would say, right around that time—2900 A.D.—and probably was for some time after that.

(35:45) But the group that designed and built this system, built all of the computer link-ups—and occasionally one would go bad, because I was there. Just before I left, one had gone sour, and it was removed at a later date, I believe. But I did learn the name of this group of people who were essentially the designers of the whole system, the computer system, the city structures, the city set-up. They called themselves the WingMakers.

(36:15) Now some of you may have heard of the WingMakers group. And it certainly has turned up on 20th-century computers, and a lot of data has been turned out—hundreds of pages and some of the manuals—describing the discovery of their stash in New Mexico in about 1974, in which the only thing they found which was out of place for an eighth century A.D. Indian burial mound, the item that was totally out of context, was a compass. It resulted in the NSA becoming involved with this, descending on the site, sealing it off, and looking to see if possibly what they were looking at was actually an alien type of installation, an alien crash or whatever.

(37:00) They did not ever find any evidence of aliens. In fact, they didn’t find enough evidence to support any thesis. So, they closed it down. And after an earthquake in about the year 1994, approximately, a wall disappeared due to the earthquake, and they had a tunnel, an artificial-looking tunnel, which went to a circular staircase clawed right in the rock—which is quite obviously artificial—and 23 rooms off that staircase in the long tunnel, all of which contained relics of some civilization that was advanced, paintings, and in the last room, the 23rd room, was a laser disc, an actual optical disc, much like what we have today, except the coding in it was such that it could not be decoded.

(38:00) To make a long story short, it took a year and a half for one of the experts there in languages, who knew 20 languages and some ancient Sumerian, and somehow got the clues from the pictures on the walls—23 rooms, 23 pictures or paintings, and all in good shape—they finally cracked the optical disc. And they who had made the disk and left it there stated very clearly that they had left this in 880, approximately, eighth century, and there was six more like it around the earth—seven total. The object was for man to dig these up when he got to the point where technically he could do it, and understand what was there and learn their concerns about civilization. Well, one has been found, that was in New Mexico, there are six more. There are rumors that a second one has been found. But, of course, the first one was totally under the control of the NSA, the National Security Agency.

(39:00) Underneath the basic organization was another one called a ACIO—Advanced Contacts Intelligence Organization. They are the ones who apparently pull all of the rare and exotic research involving finds which might look like aliens, but proved in this case not to be: it was a time-travel operation. And that is the group which is set aside to do it, and there’s a special group within a ACIO known as the WingMakers group, which was working on this project and keeping it very, very secret.

(39:30) They identified the group as having come from the 28th century, originating in the 28th century: they called themselves the WingMakers, which is what I remember. And they were interactive with this time period also—that is, the 20th century into the 21st century. They did not give me any indication at the time when I was in the 28th century that they were interactive with the 20th century, but I got the distinct impression that I had not seen the last of them, from the various things they said. I have not seen them since, I might add, not in any physical sense, unless it was by accident, because there was no communication. And it might have been an instance where I saw some of their people, three of them, in a men’s health club on one Sunday afternoon in Atlanta about two years ago. No communication with anyone, not even communicating between themselves: the group was telepathic. And whether it was them or not I don’t know, but I have a suspicion. They were too genetically perfect to have been at this time of this era, so they could have been.

(40:30) But since then, the indications have been via the internet, and that information which was dropped on the net—two interviews out of five that have been given by Dr. Anderson, a pseudonym, but one of the senior workers with the language capability that cracked the optical disk found an outside person to take some interviews five and all and translate them into a material which would be put on the internet. He wanted the material out. Well, two got out, and some other material, and that was the last ever seen or heard of either, or Dr. Anderson.

DR. ANDERSON: “It was then I began to hear their instructions, or more precisely, their thoughts. I was given mental images on how to use the Sumerian language to decode their own symbol pictures. I thought I was possibly going crazy. I felt like my mind was playing tricks on me . . . that I was working too hard and needed to take a holiday, but I listened to the voices because it seemed plausible what I was being instructed to do. When I finished with the access code and it worked, I knew then that I was indeed communicating with them.

ANNE: “Did you tell anyone? I mean about the fact that you were communicating with the WingMakers?”

DR. ANDERSON: “I kept it a secret. I wasn’t sure how I would be able to explain the phenomenon and I didn’t want to arouse suspicions, so I went about my business and began developing the translation indexes for the 8,110 pages of text that was discovered within the optical disc. It was essential that we had a letter-for-letter index in order to retain the meaning of their language . . . we called this translation granularity. And as I started the process of translating the optical disc, I began to see fragment images of the WingMakers . . . sort of like a holographic image that would appear and then disappear in a matter of seconds.

“They visited me a total of three times — always in my home at night — and told me that I had been selected to be their liaison or spokesperson. Of course I asked them why me and not Fifteen, and they said that Fifteen was unable to speak for them because he was already the pawn of the Corteum.”

ANNE: “Why was [Fifteen] so interested in time travel?”

DR. ANDERSON: “No one is absolutely sure. And his reasons may have changed over time. The accepted purpose was to develop Blank Slate Technology or BST. BST is a form of time travel that enables the re-write of history at what are called intervention points. Intervention points are the causal energy centers that create a major event like the break-up of the Soviet Union or the NASA space program.

“The messages or prophecies that they made had several consistent strands or themes that were to occur in the early part of the 21st century, around the year 2011. Chief among these was the infiltration of the major governments of the world, including the United Nations, by an alien race. This alien race was a predator race with extremely sophisticated technologies that enabled them to integrate with the human species. That is to say, they could pose as humanoids, but they were truly a blend of human and android.

“This alien race was prophesied to establish a world government and rule as its executive power. It was to be the ultimate challenge to humankind’s collective intelligence and survival. These texts are kept from the public . . .

“There is a network of secret organizations that are loosely connected through the financial markets and their interests in worldly affairs. They are generally centers of power for the monetary systems within their respective countries, and are elitists of the first order. The ACIO is affiliated with this network only because it is rightly construed that the ACIO has the best technology in the world, and this technology can be deployed for financial gain through market manipulation.

“As for an editorial committee . . . no, this secret network of organizations doesn’t review books before publication. Its holdings are exclusively in ancient manuscripts and religious texts. They have a very strong interest in prophecy because they believe in the concept of vertical time and they have a vested interest in knowing the macro-environmental changes that can effect the economy. You see for most of them, the only game on this planet that is worth playing is the acquisition of ever-increasing wealth and power through an orchestrated manipulation of the key variables that drive the economic engines of our world.” . . .

“They help fund the ACIO. This collective of organizations has enormous wealth. More than most governments can comprehend. The ACIO provides them with the technology to manipulate money markets and rake in tens of billions of dollars every year. I don’t even know the scope of their collective wealth.”
https://www.wanttoknow.info/wingmakersorig/wingmakersinterviews/www.wingmakers.com/interview/iview1

AL BIELEK:  There’s no answer at this point as to whether or not those two people are still alive or dead, what’s happened to them, and the other three interviews have never appeared on the internet. There’s enough that has appeared to make a very substantial story, and there are very substantial indications that these guys were not flakes. Their section on philosophy alone is enough to really stir one. And the pictures are very, very strange, according to those who found them on the walls, they were still in very good condition. This is from the 8th century to the 20th century, which is twelve hundred years, and there was very little deterioration, and, for that matter, there is very little dust in the rooms. But they found some means to protect them further. I mean, the CIA does have some rather advanced technologies available to them, and NSA, and they made some further attempt to preserve the paintings. What they did I don’t know. But what is interesting is that the other stashes have yet to turn up. And they insisted from this one optical disc that there were six more, and when the time was right they’d all be found. And they were very concerned about the survival of humanity throughout this very critical period of history, meaning the 20th century into the 21st century.

(42:30) Now, in retrospect, looking back at them and the things they said, and what I now remember, they were not convinced, in my view, that the socialist experiment was a success. It was a success to a very certain degree in terms of the local time period in the local era, and perhaps in terms of what problems had developed prior to their starting this experiment—i.e., the collapses or near-collapse of civilization and trying to rebuild in the period after 2137—22nd century up through the 26th. I had no indication of the history in that period as to what transpired: nothing was discussed with me. I got the impression that it was not exactly in very good shape. There may have been of the problems that developed in the interim, but by that time of the 26th century, they had got a handle on synthetic intelligence, and they decided to go ahead and rebuild civilization using what they called the Lama system—the system of intelligence created in a crystalline form, consciously aware, and having certain other abilities which would normally be classed as metaphysical. These computers were able to do things which, perhaps, some of our best gurus would have trouble doing: manipulation of matter, manipulation of time by these computers.

(44:00) So, they were not unintelligent: they were very intelligent. But they had no ethics and morality as we understand them and as we use them. So, my question to myself, or perhaps to anyone else, is, are these guys looking now perhaps for another solution? Obviously, we learned in this century that if there is no competitive spirit, if there is no desire to succeed, if there is no pressure on an individual to learn to do something constructive or to succeed, to help build some little corner, a brick or two in our civilization, without that pressure, people don’t do anything. And if you suddenly wind up in a situation where all of your needs and wants are granted for free and you don’t have to go out and work for them, you don’t have to do something to go get them, you don’t have to cut down trees, go out and skin animals for their furs to survive, but suddenly everything is handed to you on a silver platter, yeah, at first that seems great and will work for awhile, but after a period of time it’s going to fall apart. And I think they were at the point where they were beginning to realize that this was going to happen.

(45:15) Now, from that point, after nearly two years, I was told I had to go back. And I says, “Go back where? What for?” And it says, “Well, you came out of the past, and there are certain problems back there that were unresolved, and you have to go back and solve them.” “I don’t know what you’re talking about.” I didn’t at that point remember my involvement at the Philadelphia Experiment. I was brainwashed, number one, if you will. And the Lama, the local one, kept insisting, “You must go back.” And I said, “I don’t want to,” and it says, “You will go back.” And I did.

But before I left, during that two-year period, I met somebody. He became a very close companion. And he happened to be a tour guide, because there were a lot of tours in those days. Tour guides, of course, were necessary to take people around and show them the sights, and showing some of the old cities. New York City was a museum, if you will, as were some of the old cities in the 20th century, those that survived, and they made very nice museums out of them. New York was sort of the model to show how people lived in the 20th century. I did go on that tour; a great deal of it was still intact, most of Manhattan, not all of it. Brooklyn and Queens were essentially destroyed, and they didn’t make any attempt to rebuild it because the destruction was too heavy. But the concrete and steel of New York, of Manhattan, and some of the other buildings adjacent to Manhattan, survived, and what little damage there was was repaired, and they made a very nice museum of it. You could go through it and tour it, see the underground subway systems—as I remember, they were not operational. But everything was there made a very interesting review of history from the standpoint of those of the 28th century. What we take for granted today, of course, they didn’t.

(47:00) And at that point I did not have my memory of the 20th century, but as time went on, it came back, after I left the 28th century. They said I had to go back, so I was sent back, and, of course, this raises the question: were they the ones who brought me up there in the first place? I certainly didn’t have any hardware handy to do it; I certainly had no desire to go to the 28th century—I knew nothing about it!

Back to 2137 AD

So, I went back to 2137. And Duncan was there, and I was imbued with the idea we had to go back. I had no idea how we were going to go back, and I wasn’t even sure at that point where. But we did go back; we were sent back to 1983, to the early-morning hours, approximately 2:00 a.m., on 12 August, 1983, inside the chain-link fence of Montauk Point, and these search lights came down from a large helicopter. And MPs, quite a number, came out, grabbed us, and took us to the building, where we boarded an elevator, went down below, and then, of course, met Dr. John von Neumann.

(48:20) At the point of our return, however—that is, to 1983—a great deal of the memory of the other elements came back. At this point I’m still not sure how much of it came back, but quite a bit of it did. And when we were returned to the Eldridge by the crew and the system at Montauk—namely, the time-tunnel—and we were back in the Eldridge, and it was back in the harbor, and we wound up in our—that is, I wound up in the four-day board of inquiry: Duncan jumped overboard and went back to the later part of that century, the 20th century—but after giving my report, of course, I was not believed.

In retrospect, I can understand why I was not believed. Because, who in the year1943 is going to believe a story about 1983, much less about further on in the future than that? It would be hard enough to understand 1983. It’s only 40 years, but enormous changes took place—far more than would ever have been normally expected, and, let us say, the mental projection of what comes on after 1943. Nobody expected such rapid development of aircraft, of automobiles, of highways of freeway systems, of electronics, of computers. Of course, in 1983, computers were not in the form of personal computers, as is today the case in the year 2000; but nevertheless, computers existed, and they were proliferating in every way and every respect.

(50:00) But then, if we add a story about 2137, I’m sure that was a little bit too much. They thought I was a little bit ill, and I had gotten some radiation sickness. Nobody said that, because I gave a very coherent report, but I’m sure they might well have been thinking it. Duncan was not there to back me up, unfortunately, and he went on back to the year 1983—late ’82 or early ’83: we’re not sure. I say I’m not sure because those records we didn’t dig out until after the Montauk Project collapsed. And it was in the 90s—’95, ’96—we were able to find out what happened to Duncan.